PowerCADD Forum

pjmeli wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:59 pm

Maybe it's because I imported a Sketchup model (via dwg) to practice on.

Paul

Many moons ago I remember the guys from formZ saying that the models that Sketchup created were messed up

Sketchup was not using the proper protocols way back then and it sounds like they’re still messed up

Did I miss something... Is this now the formZ forum?

Joe Mattei wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:35 pm

Did I miss something... Is this now the formZ forum?

No but if PC is going away I need an alternative besides Sketchup so I asked a question of someone familiar with Form Z…

Regards
Paul

I've used FZ for several years. Like more than 15. I've never been keen on it's draft module, now called layout. The tools are clumsy and very limited. I primarily use it for 3d design and rendering for presentations to the client.
When I'm ready to detail (working drawings) I'll take the section views, plan and elevation views, convert to dwg or dfx and import into PC and build the planset. It's tedious and has other structural flaws such as the original model isn't updated, etc. But it works. Sort of. Some of the time.
Frankly if I was able to do it all over again, knowing that PC would be going into the dumpster before the end of my career I'd have stuck with MiniCad, which is now Vector works.
I'll say again, and I know that the effort has been made by Alfred, that if FZ would figure out how to get the wild tools palette at minimum and better yet the entire PC toolset into Layout it would be a viable drafting tool. From my seat FZ (AutoDesSys) is the perfect buyer for PC. But what do I know...

As for the updating thing between modeling and layout, yes it can be glitchy and certain aspects that I've always understood should work (dimensions in layout updating with changes in the model) I've never been successful with, but that's probably due to my not having time or patience to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Charles Freeborn wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:57 am

that's probably due to my not having time or patience to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I’ve tried several alternatives in trial mode. I give up. The frustration is real. I have a friend who used PC for many years and switched to VectorWorks, and he tells me it’s the one that’s more similar to PC. But… the money… and, besides, I don’t need BIM. I use PC for so many other things other than CAD.

I'm in the process of moving over to Vectorworks. Yes it's expensive and yes there is a big learning curve but it's so much more that just a 2d/3d drafting package with BIM capabilities. I've spent a lot of time on tutorials and one to one training with a trainer who is an architect here in the UK.

The work flows, once mastered, can make for significant improvements in drafting time especially as the the project moves from the design stage to construction and detail design. I no longer have to flip between PC and Sketchup or have to make numerous re-draws of plans elevations, sections, etc. as the design is refined. In VW the initial model can be adapted and refined with all plans sections etc. automatically updated to reflect these changes.

2D drafting can provide similar and perhaps even better visuals than are possible in PC. The hybrid nature of the drawings (which combine 2D views with the 3D model) is really quite amazing and powerful. Export the files to PDF or for printing is far more controllable and can be set up to ensure naming and numbering of PDFs is automatic, this may seem mundane but for me this saves a lot of time

The production of Schedules (windows, doors, or any symbols) is simple. I've even been able to import many of my symbol libraries straight into VW and re-use, so not having to re-draw years of work in producing these.

Like many out there I've been working with PC for many years (early 1990s) and started working with Sketch-up not long after that. But things change, Sketchup now charges me an annual license for the pro version even when Layout really doesn't do what it should and PC can't run on new machines or current system software. I intend to be working for at least another 10 years and need to have a set up I can rely on that's efficient, fully supported and allows me to improve the quality of what I produce.

As for the cost, you get what you pay for, I can't remember the last time I paid for any PC upgrade. I would have happily paid annually for upgrades and to allow the software to be developed. Had there been the development I suspect we would all now be paying a substantial annual sum to ensure financial viability of Engineered Software.

As I have many projects already started in PC I'll still be working in PC for some time. However I have to be honest since starting to use VW I really get quite excited about learning new things within VW and how these improve the way I work and present my drawings (I remember a time when I felt the same way when waiting for the latest PC upgrade!).

Charles Freeborn wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:57 am

Frankly if I was able to do it all over again, knowing that PC would be going into the dumpster before the end of my career I'd have stuck with MiniCad, which is now Vector works.
I'll say again, and I know that the effort has been made by Alfred, that if FZ would figure out how to get the wild tools palette at minimum and better yet the entire PC toolset into Layout it would be a viable drafting tool. From my seat FZ (AutoDesSys) is the perfect buyer for PC. But what do I know...

I was an original MiniCad user and stuck with it until Vectorworks 8 I believe. Even owned stock in the company until the lowlife managing my account sold it without asking me and reinvested it in some penny stock (churn) and I lost it all. Hopefully he went to jail.
After VW8 I switched to PowerCadd and have loved it since although fascinated with 3D so I jumped in with Sketchup v1 from At Last and worked the two together. Been doing it this way for nearly 20 years.

Now I use Sketchup for most of my work and was using PC for 2D details but I'm beginning to feel uncomfortable with the direction Trimble is headed.
Let's face it, we're all marks in the corporate con. They must keep growing to keep their shareholders happy and we get caught in the middle…as soon as they can't maintain growth they cash out and run. Just the way it is. In the end there can be only one.

If I can't get Form Z to do what I want I may jump back into VW based on another comment in this thread. I'm old as dirt but I have no plans to retire until the Reaper comes for me.

I love this work, although what I do is mostly Engineering, I get a thrill out of creating details using 3D models and the occasional custom home project.

Paul

I was an original MiniCad user

If I can't get Form Z to do what I want I may jump back into VW based on another comment in this thread. I'm old as dirt but I have no plans to retire until the Reaper comes for me.

I love this work, although what I do is mostly Engineering, I get a thrill out of creating details using 3D models and the occasional custom home project.

Paul
[/quote]

I oringinally learned MiniCad on the job with a display company. The designers worked in FZ and then handed off to us detailers to build working drawing plan sets in MC. That's where I learned about FZ.
FZ is at it's heart originally an architectural design tool. Over the years they've jumped on a couple of bandwagons such as animation with limited success. There are whole tool palettes that I have on idea how to use - such as nurbs... I'm a furniture maker so I basically build a solid model, adapt, shape, reshape until I've got my form, apply a material (usually wood) and then export views to PC to detail. For me the design and drafting phases are money losers so I try to get through them as quickly as possible and get to building where my profit is.
I'm happy to share experience with FZ if I knew what sort of engineering you do.

-C

Charles Freeborn wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:58 pm

I'm happy to share experience with FZ if I knew what sort of engineering you do.

I do structural engineering for residential and light commercial projects from a small community NW of Orlando.
I also do plans for custom homes and additions for the offices I work with
It's become a kind of hobby at this stage of my life

My FormZ trial period ran out. If I can get another one I may continue to experiment. I read a post in the FormZ forums where a couple users suggested doing everything in the modeling module and exporting pdf snapshots into another CAD or publishing app instead of using the Draft module.

I've done something similar to a limited extent using Sketchup with PowerCadd…

Paul

pjmeli wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:41 pm

I read a post in the FormZ forums where a couple users suggested doing everything in the modeling module and exporting pdf snapshots into another CAD or publishing app instead of using the Draft module

You can go from formZ‘s modeling into formZ’s layout and then export as DXF

Then you could import that DXF into the CAD program of your choice

Below is a DXF that I exported out of the layout in formZ and then imported into HighDesign

Those dimensions were added in HighDesign

So you’re able to bring in something that you can snap to and you’re able to bring it in at scale