PowerCADD Future

PowerCADD & WildTools
S. Shubin
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:23 pm

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by S. Shubin » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:22 am

So there’s a few different ways this could possibly be done

To find some virtual way of keeping PowerCADD going on newer hardware

Or to buy a Mac Mini or used hardware, and keep running it on that

But I guess some would like to see the code rewritten as best possible so that it could work on the latest OS for the M1

Now Todd already said something to the effect that a lot of the tools or all of the tools are written at the system level (carbon) and that’s what made PowerCADD work so fast

So if it is rewritten to where it’s not at the system level, then it should be expected that it’s not gonna work as fast. I’m assuming.

But I would be curious to know from Todd and or Alfred, how much they really believe it would cost, to have the program rewritten to run natively on an M1

And where would you find these programmers? Would you go to the eastern bloc? Seems like a lot of rendering programs or what not, are programmed over there. I know Vray is handled over in middle or eastern Europe or some place like that

And how long do they think that that would realistically take to do ?

I’m curious to know this myself. Because although I am using a different program now and I’m finally getting up to speed with it, I realize that what I’m using is not the ELEGANT 2D drafting program that PowerCADD and Wildtools is.

Eric Pousse
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed May 05, 2021 1:19 pm

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by Eric Pousse » Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:10 pm

To have some ideas about speed, I made some tests with different Mac and macOS.
Same file with 305014 lines which can be downloaded here
The dxf file is in meter and scale 1/50.

Speed test :
From a display at zoom 100%, I do zoom all -> first time, select all -> 2e time, unselect -> 3e time.
On a MacBook Pro mid 2010 with macOS 10.13.6 on integrated screen
PowerCADD 9.1.4 : 3s - 20s - 2s
RealCADD 5.02 : 5s - 16s - 5s

On a MacBook Pro mid 2015 with macOS 10.15.7 on integrated screen or LG ultra HD 27"
RealCADD : 2s - 3s - 2s

On a Mac mini M1 with macOS 11.4 on LG ultra HD 27"
RealCADD : 1s - 2s - 1s

Voilà !

This test shows what can be expected with a modernised version of PowerCADD on last Mac and macOS.

Eric Pousse

bo5
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:21 am

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by bo5 » Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:11 pm

me too

S. Shubin
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:23 pm

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by S. Shubin » Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:01 pm

So Eric — your program is written with Xojo. And it appears to be quite fast — at least from what testing you’ve done so far

But back to having PowerCADD written to run natively on M1 —

You know even if Todd decided to have somebody rewrite his program, he may not want it to be written overseas. Because he may have next to no legal protection for something that his family worked on for years and years

So if he had to find programmers here in the US, I’m gonna guess that’s gonna be more expensive than hiring somebody across the Atlantic.

Now I’ve never programmed a single line of code. So I’m about as ignorant as can be regarding that type of thing.

But let’s say it was going to be reprogrammed here in the states to run on the M1 natively. Well how do you go about that?

Do you use one programmer or three programmers? And how long would that take.

So for kicks and giggles, I’m just going to throw some figures out here

So let’s say it’s a thing where you’re going to hire three programmers to work on it and it’s going to take three years to write the code. I don’t know if that’s reasonable or not. But, I am going to guess that you’re probably gonna end up spending, I don’t know — maybe $100,000 per programmer per year over a three-year period

So an extremely wild guess would be that it’s going to be not too far from one million dollars.

So someone tell me — Is that even beginning to sound like it’s in the ballpark for rewriting a program from the ground up around a newer programming language ?

And if just by chance, this was at least beginning to be in the ballpark — would there be enough people that would wanna throw in on a go fund me page and put that kind of money upfront ?

And then you got to ask yourself, and what happens if it doesn’t go as fast as everybody was hoping it would go. So then what do you do ?

To me — it looks like the best route at this point is to probably buy one of those new Mac mini’s (older model but new hardware) that’ll run an older OS, without having to go through some virtual environment

SteveMouzon
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:39 pm

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by SteveMouzon » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:20 pm

Just a thought for Todd...

Todd, at this point, you've basically said "it's over," and I respect that. If nothing changes, then there are no more software sales, and no future benefit that I'm aware of. It seems to me that the best thing for you, first of all, would be to sell the code and all development rights to an entity for a meaningful amount, rather than having no further benefit. Then, whatever the new entity does with it is a non-issue to you, it seems, other than the fact that it carries PowerCADD on to another generation, which would be to me, if I were in your shoes, at least a warm fuzzy every now and then.

Just a thought...

EduardoJB
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:49 pm

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by EduardoJB » Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:32 pm

Eric… (maybe this is not an appropriate question) how does RealCAD works for you? I didn’t even know it existed and by looking at their site it looks like a viable alternative. I’m still trying to adjust to the bad news but will need some alternative soon. I really hate leaving PowerCADD behind, but can’t risk again losing all the work done with it for so many years. Something similar happened to me with another software (not CAD) which was not compatible with any other program and I lost everything. Thank you and, for all the rest of the forum community, please excuse me for having to introduce a topic about another program…

Rik Negus
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 9:11 pm

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by Rik Negus » Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:58 pm

Looking at the available alternates to PowerCadd one realizes the true beauty of what Todd and Alfred have created. Everything else is a distance second if even that. There is no comparison and it would truly be a shame for PowerCadd to cease to exist. It is unique in its excellence.

The only hope is that Todd does the right thing and gives it a new home, as it stands now it has no value, therefore anything received be it $1 is more than it is worth now, what is more important than the dollar value is the legacy value. In a past conversation Alfred had mention to me the possibility of a software developer of note who would be interested in taking it on. I wonder if that is still the case.

Todd it is time to let go of your baby and allow it to find its way in the world, there is a good home waiting for it somewhere.

In my perfect world Trimble would acquire it and marry it to SketchUp replacing the pathetic LayOut, PowerCadd and SketchUp share the same ease of use and elegance we have all come to expect. One can only dream.

SteveMouzon
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:39 pm

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by SteveMouzon » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:50 pm

Rik Negus wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:58 pm
Looking at the available alternates to PowerCadd one realizes the true beauty of what Todd and Alfred have created. Everything else is a distance second if even that. There is no comparison and it would truly be a shame for PowerCadd to cease to exist. It is unique in its excellence.

The only hope is that Todd does the right thing and gives it a new home, as it stands now it has no value, therefore anything received be it $1 is more than it is worth now, what is more important than the dollar value is the legacy value. In a past conversation Alfred had mention to me the possibility of a software developer of note who would be interested in taking it on. I wonder if that is still the case.

Todd it is time to let go of your baby and allow it to find its way in the world, there is a good home waiting for it somewhere.

In my perfect world Trimble would acquire it and marry it to SketchUp replacing the pathetic LayOut, PowerCadd and SketchUp share the same ease of use and elegance we have all come to expect. One can only dream.
Oh, dang, that's the dream scenario I've not yet voiced! The best 2D in the world married to the best 3D in the world!

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lava
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Location: Merchantville, NJ
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Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by lava » Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:58 am

Jon Buswell wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:10 am
It might well be that the idea of a users co-operative who collectively own this software and pay to keep it going - not for commercial but for reasons of continuity could be an option if the right people are found.
Can we as a group, with Todds blessing, conduct a feasibility study into the cost of a co-op of users contracting a third party programming company/consultant to move the core of the current version of PowerCadd forward to the current MacOS programming environment. Todd would be free to write his own ticket - either writing tool extensions in the mode of WildTools, or providing oversight - as he wishes, but relieving him of the pressure and deadlines, and economic risk of developing the next version.

Does that sound interesting to you? Todd? No risk or commitment needed at this point. Simply be available to answer questions of scale and scope that would permit a third party to make a projection. (I am sure we could not get a committed proposal without examine the code, but at this stage we just need a budget to examine the numbers and knowing what all would need to invest to move forward.)

Not agreeable to this path - can we facilitate opening a conversation with Trimble?
Greg La Vardera
www.lamidesign.com

wwhittenberg
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:02 pm

Re: PowerCADD Future

Post by wwhittenberg » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:57 pm

Todd-

From Draw to Claris Card to PowerCADD I have been a life long user of this software. There is no other software out there that has the easy of use and features of PowerCADD and Wildtools.

The open source community of programmers is vast. Would you consider making the source code available to this community? It would be nice if this could happen for a price or not.

It's has been quite a ride. All your efforts have been much appreciated over the years.

Live long and prosper,

William Whittenberg

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